Monday, June 1, 2020

August 16, 2017 facebook post

August 16, 2017 facebook post
When militant racists come to town, I am divided. My heart says “let them march. Let them speak. Because they hate the very things that bind our country together, they will never threaten us.” My gut says “go and stop them. Break their bones if that’s what it takes, before it’s too late.”
In the general outrage over President Trump’s obtuse responses to the violence in Charlottesville, some significant facts and principles are getting obscured. Here’s an outline of what went down.
The Unite The Right rally was convened by Jason Kessler to oppose the removal of the Robert E. Lee statue from Emancipation Park (formerly Lee Park) in downtown Charlottesville. The broader goal was to bring together the various groups that constitute the white identity nexus of the alt-right. According to Wikipedia:
“Among the far-right groups engaged in organizing the march were the clubs of the neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer,[15] the neo-Confederate League of the South,[13] the National Policy Institute,[16] and the National Socialist Movement.[13] Other groups involved in the rally were the Ku Klux Klan,[3] the Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights,[17] the 3 Percenters,[18] the Traditionalist Workers Party,[17] Identity Evropa,[1] the Oath Keepers,[19] Vanguard America,[17] the American Guard,[20] the Pennsylvania Light Foot Militia,[21] the New York Light Foot Militia,[22] the Virginia Minutemen Militia,[23] the Nationalist Front,[13] the Rise Above Movement,[24] True Cascadia,[25] and Anti-Communist Action .[20]”
The counter-protesters who assembled to oppose Unite The Right included a diverse assortment of religious, political, and anti-racist organizations. Most of these groups were committed to non-violent protest, but others, including Antifa and Black Bloc, intended to disrupt the event and attack the assembled racists.
Fearing an unmanageable confrontation, city officials denied Unite The Right’s request for a permit for the rally in Emancipation Park, proposing McIntire Park, a mile from downtown area, as an alternative. With support from the ACLU and a local civil liberties group, Unite The Right sued the city to get the requested permit. On August 11, the night before the rally, Judge Glen E. Conrad granted an emergency injunction to allow the rally to take place in Emancipation Park. Later that night, Nazis and white supremacists marched through the University of Virginia campus and physically attacked a group of counter-protesters there.
The morning of August 12 began with a large non-violent interfaith rally against Unite The Right. Later, racists and antifascists engaged in scattered fights, which the police apparently made little attempt to control, resulting in at least 19 injuries. Both City and State officials declared a state of emergency, and the Unite The Right Rally was again moved to McIntire Park, where it took place, with protesters and counter-protesters effectively separated from one another. Then at 1:45, with the rally still in progress, James Fields drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing Heather Heyer and injuring 19 others.
President Trump’s initial remark that there was violence “on many sides,” while grossly inappropriate, was literally accurate. We don’t yet know whether James Fields divulged his intent to murder and terrorize the counter-protesters to anyone else who was planning or participating in the Unite The Right rally. At this point, it appears that he acted on his own. Following the rally, the organizers declared it to have been a complete success. Reaction to Fields’ terror attack from Kessler and other Unite The Right leaders was as equivocal as President Trump’s.
The war over slavery in the United States has essentially never ended. It has brought us to this point. I still believe that hateful bigots should be allowed to have their say. But with the President acting as their apologist, my confidence is shaken. I cannot easily refute those who argue that only direct confrontation will deter the people who want to destroy the US from within.

  • Nancy Adams Jonathan, thank you for this clear summary of events and your perspective. I am also struggling with the free speech and right to assemble issues and your closing paragraph gave me chills - because it is how I feel and what drove sober intellectuals and peace-loving people to enter World War II. Boston is trying to shut down a rally here on Saturday organized by groups with ties to white nationalists and I just don't know how to think about it.
     
  • Danny Mydlack Thank you for writing this all out. It's important to look a bit dispassionately at the events. I share your opening feelings of conflict between tolerance and an instinct to open a can of whoop-ass on them.

    I've been thinking about a perhaps small de
    tail after watching the Vice doc that's going around and reading other accounts. I wish I'd been there because I bet I wouldn't be writing the following; I'd probably have some better insight.
    There appears not to have been universal training in non-violent protest among the counter-protesters. Or, non-violence was not a universal presumption. From my limited experience in the 80s participating in the occupation of the Seabrook Nuclear Power Plant, I recall how extensive and detailed our month-long training was.
    I'm no purist; I kinda like watching Nazis get smacked. But I don't think it's playing out well. I wonder if someone with more direct experience has written about this? Or, maybe this is moot and it's on to civil war?
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    Gene Weinbeck Starhawk wrote in Webs of Power about their attempts to coordinate the efforts of those who wanted to take direct violent action with the rest of the nonviolent movement when demonstrating against the IMF in the 90s and later.
  • Danny Mydlack Thanks. It's a bit of a lengthy read but I'm on it. Here is something a bit less lengthy:
    https://theoccupiedtimes.org/?p=5631
  • Occupy, Black Bloc & Liberal Pacifism – The Politics of Confrontation
    theoccupiedtimes.org
    Occupy, Black Bloc & Liberal Pacifism – The Politics of…
    Occupy, Black Bloc & Liberal Pacifism – The Politics of Confrontation
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  • Jonathan S. Scheuer Thanks, Gene Weinbeck and Danny Mydlack. I strongly disagree with this Occupied Times article, but it's helpful to know the arguments of the Black Bloc. I can't speak for the working class, but I'm pretty sure that they don't, either.
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  • Loren Schoenberg Yes, thank you for the larger context. The events have hit so many trigger points that it's been hard to get a handle on the larger picture. It's precisely at junctures such as these that the country needs a Lincoln to adequately quantify the competing interests and obligations of our governmental structure. Yes, all groups should be able to march. Those who bring violence must be punished. That does not mean they have moral equivalence, and like you and so many others, it is DT's (great initials - that's what he's giving the country) inability to handle the challenge that magnifies the conflict.
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  • Margaret H Underwood Well thought out and said, Jonathan S. Scheuer.
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  • Suzanne Shepherd How does Germany deal with Nazis? Maybe that's what we need to follow.
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  • Jonathan S. Scheuer Nancy Adams, now that's a great idea!
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  • Write a reply...





  • Maureen Gosling One point is they don't believe in free speech. They wish everyone one else would be gone.
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  • Skot Davis In response to Suzanne's question: From my experience living in Germany in the 00's, I'd say the Germans are much more comfortable than we have been, limiting free speech and assembly in an effort to combat hate groups. I personally was uncomfortable with where they drew the line; on the other hand, they are acutely aware of how very consciously the Nazis used the institutions of democracy to undermine democracy, and they are determined such a thing will never happen again there.
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  • Cathy Nolan Vinčević The Nazi's were not marching for free speech, for the free expression of their sorrow about a stupid statue, they were marching to incite violence, they were marching to start a civil war. That's the core difference. That's what this was all about--and that is worlds away from freedom of expression.
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  • Denis McCarthy Personally I think hate speech is not protected free speech, and the display of symbols of hatred and oppression should not be considered free speech. Antifa subvert any protest they participate in, but neonazis must go, forcibly if need be. Showing up at their rally armed essentially meant they intended for violence to occur. I move that if that is their desire, then they should recieve their fill. Perhaps it will not be to their liking, although it may be to mine.
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  • Yvonne Simons However, when you look at some of these recent neo Nazis at the VICE video, disarming themselves at the end, vowing to use guns at the next rally, speech can quickly turn into violence. That's what I'm struggling with. At what point do we draw a line in the sand? How many lives?! There's a reason why Nazi symbols are forbidden to be shown in Germany today.
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  • Стивен Головнин Thank you dear friend for your thoughtful words and expressions. I must say that nothing that has gone down so far since the election has hit me as deeply has this event has. And I'm seeing 2 or 3 times the usual FB traffic in the last few days as well.

    One of my concerns is how much of a distraction this is from other horrible events coming down (the repeated attempts to Repeal and Replace, Russian collusion, WH in chaos, tax breaks for the wealthy, DeVoss, Pence, Bannon, McConnel, Ryan, etc) and how effectively trump has been able to use this to obfuscate other malignant tumours.

    I don't live in a Red State and I can't imagine how I'd feel right now if I did. Would I step up and fight if it came down to it? I really don't know. At the same time, I have very little faith in the political process... at any time in my life. It feels to me to be even more dire than if we were to start exchanging nuclear bombs with North Korea With the latter, it's a clear fight, standing up to protecting everyone and everything on our soil. With the current fiasco, it's hitting us where we live... from within.

    I know that this is a very real part of trump's base, perhaps an extreme one yet still very real. And I'm thoroughly nauseated that it can exist at all in this day and age.
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  • Tedi May I say let them have their permits. With social media so advanced, it's a whole different world than it was in World War 11 when Hitler came to power. Even Trump.
    Let him spout. It's all good for the elections coming up, and it's exposing so many for what they are. Hung by their own petard.
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  • Joan Scheuer What I would add to this discussion is the acknowledgment that we expect a president to articulate significant American values in a crisis like the Charlottseville affair. The problem is that he failed us. Jpan
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  • Marian Sofaer I've never been convinced that the Supreme Court's decision in the Skokie case was right - it allowed Nazi sympathizers to parade in a town with many Holocaust survivors, doing it their on purpose to cause them psychic pain. The ruling on the permits in Charlottesville was apparently an effort to follow this precedent. Maybe now that these gatherings are resulting in violence, we need to reassess, and figure out what is equivalent to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
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  • Denis McCarthy At least the ACLU no longer will defend them.
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  • Jonathan S. Scheuer Hindsight shows that Judge Conrad's decision was very unfortunate. He ruled in spite of evidence that the Nazis were armed and belligerent, and some of the counter-protesters were as well. The local Chamber Of Commerce supported the city's request to move the rally to McIntire Park, which ultimately happened anyway after rioting started and the city and state evoked emergency powers.
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  • Jonathan S. Scheuer Regarding nonviolent protest that is designed to cause psychic distress or has the potential to do so, this is where civil libertarians and social justice warriors have parted company. it is very much an issue on college campuses, where visits by far right provocateur speakers bring out militant protesters, creating a situation that is very difficult to control. Controversial speech is by definition upsetting to some part of the community. It seems to me that we have to protect even the most noxious eructations, and constrain them only when there is no other way to protect public safety.
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    • Tedi May I am a pacifist with a .38 :-) I believe in the teachings of Dr. Martin Luther King, but don't push me.
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